FamCamps becoming family housing

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1 year 10 months ago #17805 by gklott
We recently tried to stay at the Edwards AFB FAMCAMP, only to find nearly all the spaces were long-term permanent active duty who were using the FAMCAMP as family housing. Some sites have been occupied for more than a year, and many have external storage sheds. Dept. of Air Force poiicy, as quoted below - "...the program manager must ensure recreational camping areas are not used as a place to live, with the exception of the recreational vehicle camp host (manager)."

Have others found more and more FamCamp sites taken up as long-term family housing?

73/gus

DAFI34-101 7 MARCH 2022
Chapter 19 § 19.23, "DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE MORALE, WELFARE, AND RECREATION (MWR) PROGRAMS AND USE ELIGIBILITY"
19.23. Campgrounds. Commanders develop installation policies for campgrounds that best service their eligible patrons. (T-3). Undeveloped camping areas or tents-only campgrounds are Category B programs. (T-3). Natural resource funds, controlled by the civil engineer, may be used in accordance with AFMAN 32-7003. Areas developed primarily for recreational vehicle camping are Category C. (T-0). AF campgrounds were developed for, and should be managed to support, recreational camping purposes and not for a patron to use as a place of business. In addition, the program manager must ensure recreational camping areas are not used as a place to live, with the exception of the recreational vehicle camp host (manager). (T-1). If space is available, these recreational camping areas may be used by personnel on temporary duty to an installation as long as that use complies with maximum length of stay policies. The maximum length of stay must not exceed 180 days per twelve consecutive month period. (T-1). Back to back reservations designed to circumvent the local maximum length of stay limit is not permitted. (T-0).
19.23.1. The manager develops a recreational vehicle camp operating instruction that includes sections addressing reservation, cancellation, length of stay, pet, and refund policies. (T-3).
19.23.2. The program manager must ensure all recreational vehicles in the recreational vehicle camp be roadworthy and carry current registration and license tags or stickers. (T-3). If the vehicle is not roadworthy, the patron is asked to leave or not provided campsite rental. (T-3). Recreational vehicles in the recreational vehicle camp should not be skirted although tire covers are permissible. All tires (wheels) should remain on the recreational vehicles; temporary removal for repair is acceptable. No freestanding storage units are allowed within recreational vehicle camp sites. (T-3). Any recreational vehicle sold should be removed from the recreational vehicle camp prior to ownership being assumed by the buyer. For environmental reasons, no mechanical maintenance (including oil changes) or significant repair work (e.g., engine overhaul, body work, paint job) be performed, and recreational vehicles may not be washed in the recreational vehicle camp. (T-3).
19.23.3. All DAF campgrounds with recreational vehicle parking must participate in the Frequent Camper Program by stamping Frequent Camper logbooks and allowing campers to redeem Camper Cash at their camps in accordance with program guidance. (T-3).

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1 year 10 months ago #17806 by greyhound73772
Yes, length of stay rules aren't being enforced!

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1 year 10 months ago #17807 by monkey44
It's been years since length of stay rules have been enforced in many military campgrounds depending on where it is located. It seems to get worse instead of better with more and more families using MCG for housing and still receiving BAQ and other benefits. It can easily become a cash cow for the MCG and the families.

We need housing for our military, no doubt about that, but recreation MCG is not the answer. Just my two cents.
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11 months 1 week ago #17914 by akfiredog377
I can understand some MCG offering a small percentage of sites for long term stay for military or civilian workers depending on the location. If you have a base right outside the city (San Antonio for example) there are many options for housing. You look at other bases, like YPG to where its a 30-60 min drive to post. I can see the MCG offering long term spots. I visited Kesler AFB last year, the base was right out of the city, yet the CG was FULL of long term residents. Same with Youngstown, OH. Small CG with 90% of spots being homesteaded. That should not be aloud. You look at YPG, they have 102 sites and only a small percentage are long term.

I agree something needs to be done, but what I think is happening is MWR is using long term to fill the budget.
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11 months 1 week ago #17915 by larryf
It's not advertised anywhere (including this site), but YPG has a separate campground just for active duty/long-term.

Larry Farquhar, USAF (Ret)
Owner/Operator of this website.
The Happy-Wanderers
Casino Camper Website

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11 months 1 week ago #17916 by wb4zit
It's totally against the intent and the verbatim of the MWR regs....but you'll never beat that "at the discretion of the local commander"....and the local commanders don't care about recreation and particularly retirees.

Mel Linville
US Army MSG (Ret)
2020 Ram 2500 Hemi and shopping for a cheap, used, small 5th wheel

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